August 10, 2022 | 7:15 pm
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The secrets behind HBO’s Winning Time with co-creator Jim Hecht

HBO’s Winning Time: The Rise of the Lakers Dynasty is one of the most-watched shows in 2022. Co-Creator Jim Hecht explains how the show was developed, answers questions about portraying Jerry West and Magic Johnson in a different light, discusses plans for future seasons and so much more.

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Warren Shaw  00:40

What’s up everybody? Welcome to interviews brought to you by the mighty 19 Media Group and sponsored by rich kid clothing on YouTube. I’m your host Warren Shaw, man and we’ve got an amazing one lined up for you free today. But as always, you know what you have to do rate review, subscribe, tap in with all the great shows and 90 media network. And also obviously dope interview specifically, but you know what it is I got to get to the issue. You know, that’s my line. I am joined by the executive producer, writer, and CO creator of one of the best shows of 2022. Jim hack from HBOs winning time the Roger Lakers dynasty is here in the Virtual Building. My guy Jim, what’s up family? How you doing?

 

Jim Hecht  01:23

Wow, thank you. I’m happy to be the ish tonight. Thank you.

 

Warren Shaw  01:29

You’re just you are this. We are rocking it, brother. We rocked it.

 

Jim Hecht  01:33

So I’ve always aspired to be.

 

Warren Shaw  01:37

I want to jump right in. Man. We don’t waste time here on dope. We know because we gotta get people we got to get them through. Right. That’s was the show in development. Before officially being greenlit by HBO?

 

Jim Hecht  01:51

A I started eight years ago. The book came out eight years ago. Yeah. Yeah, that’s yeah, I mean, the startup just sort of like a realization that like, I can no longer mess with stuff that I like. Just only stuff that I love. Because if you like stuff, it’s kind of like this, with Jerry Maguire called and up at dawn, pride swallowing siege. But if you love something that gives you I think, just enough fire, it’s still hard. But it gives you like just enough fire to push something through eight years of development to get it to the screen. And that’s that’s what this is, like, if I didn’t love it so much. It never would have. I never I would have quit so many times,

 

Warren Shaw  02:31

man. I’ve talked to you know, people in your space quite often. And it’s sometimes it really is like a labor of love, you know, five years, six years for a project. Sometimes it’s just not that easy. Snap your fingers and you get it going. Was HBO for you. They always a landing spot, or did you end up trying to shop it around to other networks?

 

Jim Hecht  02:52

Not networks. But we did go through other producers and everybody there had a you know, there was a lot of nodes. And you know, for various reasons. But when I saw when the show debuted I, I have this sign that sits across from my desk, there was like the mock up billboard. Like here’s where it’s going to be on Sunset when you drive to work every day. And it said HBO on it. And it said Adam McKay on it. And it actually had the date within two days of when it premiered. I had March 6, the weird March 8. And I was like, oh my god, like we manifested that completely came out, except for the title because the title on the Billboard was Showtime, which was the title of the book. Yeah, we had a lot of nose and people told us you’ll never be able to Cast Magic Johnson and Kareem Abdul Jabbar. And nobody really thought this was a good idea. And so Kevin Messick and Adam McKay thought it was a good idea. And then everybody thought it was a good idea all of a sudden.

 

Warren Shaw  03:48

So I want to maybe dive in now a little bit to what why do you feel like maybe there was that that level of distrust, if you will, that you’d be able to cast people to play such iconic people that everybody does kind of know a lot? Is it because of their overall them being icons?

 

Jim Hecht  04:06

I think that’s it. I mean, I think it’s like it’s really difficult roles to cast like, yes, they’re icons. They’re very specific. They, you know, people were like specifically said, Where are you going to find a guy who’s seven foot who can act that also has that like internal brain thing that, you know, the thoughtfulness that that’s always going with Kareem and we got really lucky like Solomon use 611 played center, a cow is a PhD professor of education. He was like lecturing at Stanford when we found him like crazy and then Quincy, Isaiah. You know, when I saw it, you can see like, there’s an essence of magic to him. And the smile is there but there’s something about him that sort of embodies and that’s acting I mean, first of all, that’s acting so but there’s, you know, he was able to capture that essence and he’s, you know, also tall and played college sports. He played football on the Kalamazoo College football team. He was the center. If you look online and might still be there, his highlight reel is just like pancake after pancake after pancake. He was like 300 pounds. And that’s all there was on the internet for him when we first saw it audition was that video, I wanted his IMDB page. When I watched his audition, it was blank. There was nothing on it. Nothing. His Instagram at 264 followers, I took a picture. And every now and then I’ll take another picture of his Instagram just to like go. That’s so yeah, we got really lucky.

 

Warren Shaw  05:34

Nah, that’s really amazing. And I think being able to cast in that way, and looking for people that can play the part. But maybe even some ways just needed a chance, in essence to shine. And this is what really kind of was happening. And he specifically I mean, everybody on the show was really amazing and doing a great job. And I do want to get of course, I want to get into the cast and conversation a little bit. But you touched on something too, because when we talking about the debut, and I do want I do wonder right for somebody who is intimately involved with the project as as you are, is each Sunday night right now what is it like the playoffs? You mean? Are you just like, oh, I mean, you get it? You know what’s gonna happen? Obviously you and I mean, but is it you just are you on? Pins and Needles kind of waiting for the reactions from anybody who’s watching?

 

Jim Hecht  06:21

Not really, I mean, like, I’ve seen them all. You know, what’s interesting about the shows, I’ve seen them all 10 times, you know, by the time that they come to air, and every week, I’m like, I’m not gonna watch it. I were to do like, I don’t need to watch it live. It’s on at HBO, Max, I can watch it with my wife, Courtney, when she gets home or whatever. She’s watching them as they come out. She hasn’t seen them yet. But then every night, every week, when six o’clock rolls on, I find myself being like, yeah, here’s the remote. I’ll just keep that on out of the corner of my eye. And then I watched it, and I still enjoy just as much if not more, you know, watching the show, as it airs with everybody else. The one thing I do do is I tend to tech, check Twitter that night before I go to bed, and just read what everybody’s saying, you know, because I think look, I and I think in terms of the way we’re thinking about it, Max and I and Rodney and Adam, it’s like we’re making it, the show that we want to tell. And I think that’s all you can ever do is tell the story you would want to see. But you know, you still want to see what how people reacting. And it’s interesting to see what people react to it’s not always the stuff that we predicted would make a big splash like, you know, we had a COBie reference a couple of weeks ago, everybody comment on that? I was like, wow, I didn’t think anybody might even you know, pick up on that, or I didn’t, I didn’t expect it to be the big deal. And there’s some other things that people have centered on that. Like, I’m surprised that that’s what they that’s what they noticed. That’s what they’re into. That’s what they pick up on. But it’s cool.

 

Warren Shaw  07:48

But I mean, that really is a testament to like the greatness of the show that people care in that way to kind of do it. It’s almost like, you know, like those Marvel movies. And we’re going through frame by frame and, and looking at every intricate detail. So if people are breaking down your show and your series in that in that aspect, that means you’re doing something right. Even if they’re hating on it, you at least are watching, and they want to see what’s helpful.

 

Jim Hecht  08:08

Yeah, I hope so. I mean, I tried to put myself in their shoes too, because I’m a huge fan, obviously. So like, of the Lakers. And so I tried to think about what would I think about the way we’ve done certain things or the way things came out? And, and so I’m, you know, I’m curious what people that were really attached to the time period, what they know what they, you know, how that how they feed back on us, like, I’m interested.

 

Warren Shaw  08:31

So let’s, let’s talk about that really quickly, too, you know, and we’ll transition even to that last statement. Sure. What do you feel? Or can you share the difference, if you will, between the basketball community and maybe the lay public? When in terms of what like, what kind of type of feedback are you getting from those maybe two different entities that are enjoying the show?

 

Jim Hecht  08:52

I’m not hearing a lot from the basketball community, people aren’t really, I don’t know if the NBA has issued an edict, like, don’t talk about this or what’s happened. But But I don’t know about you, but I haven’t heard a lot of like public commentary from, you know, people that are playing right now. I have Rick Fox is a consultant on our show. He’s been a friend of mine since the 90s. And, you know, the greatest compliment that we’ve gotten, I think was from him. And he said, you know, you’ve really created, what it’s like to be part of that world and be going through what these gentlemen are going through. And that’s, that’s what we’re striving for, you know, to get that to be authentic to get the feel of what it’s like to be in NBA locker room in 1980. Right, you know, we’re doing the best we can to get that. And so to hear some of that feedback, I talked to Danny green a couple of weeks ago, I did his podcast, and he seemed to be into it and gave me similar feedback. But like, any Don ravine who’s I don’t know if you know, Don, but he’s a consultant on the show. He does all the basketball, choreography and stuff like that, if you will, and he’s he’s worked with Steph. He’s worked with harden and he’s worked with Kobe, you know, And so he, you know, he tries to keep it as real as possible. I was concerned about that from the outset, because I felt like you they they never get it right. You know, when you watch basketball and movies and television shows, it never looks like what I’m used to seeing, you know what I mean? And I want it like, and people were like someone said, I think Matt, somebody said recently, like, you’ll never be able to recreate what Showtime was like, and it’s like, well, you know, people create battle sequences on Game of Thrones. I don’t think those guys are like sword fighters or anything like that. But somehow, it comes out right. So I think we could do it. And that should be our Northstars to make it look completely authentic. And so you don’t put them through training camp. You know, and but I’m not just how to play but how to play. Like the characters that they are like, some dudes who are lefty had to learn to shoot righty, you know, to match their player. Now there’s one dude in our cast, I’m not going to name any names, could not play basketball, could not play basketball. And now he’s playing they’re pretty decently high level. You know, he just worked his ass off. So yeah. I love it. I love it. I spent hours

 

Warren Shaw  11:06

talking with Jim hexia from HBO is winning time and great, great show here, like I said, tearing up the 2220 22 airwaves. So I guess I’m already gonna know the answer to this. But I wouldn’t be doing my due diligence if I didn’t. Because there has been some, I’d say disparaging, if you will, remarks about the show and aspects of how certain characters are played, portrayed, ie a logo, Jimmy, I mean, Jerry West, and then even to something romantic, and how frivolous he was, I think, is sexual activity. And so forth.

 

Jim Hecht  11:41

I mean, look at his own interviews. I don’t know, you know, that. Anyway, I don’t know. I mean, it’s, we’re going based on what we’ve read, and the interviews and, and people’s feedback, and they’re there, this is not being pulled out of thin air. And, you know, we’re constantly asking, Are we getting this close? And people who know are like, Yeah, you’re, you’re pretty dead on. So, you know, we’re not trying to disparage anybody. And, and these are our heroes, you know, this is my childhood heroes, like, the reason why this was so important to me is because like, the best days of my life as a kid, were if my dad drove us up the 405. And we went to a Laker game, you see the forum coming into, say, you know, I was the kid that would wait outside and the loading dock, you know, after games for autographs, I waited, we went to the Westminster mall, when I was six and magic came to LA, I waited online for two and a half hours to me, Magic Johnson. So like, these are my heroes, like my absolute heroes. And I know, I wouldn’t want to see myself portrayed in a movie. And I probably wouldn’t agree with the way that that that it comes off, but like, and people have brought up Jerry West, but like, the other thing that I hear is like, that’s the character that people love, if not the most close to it. Like, they love him. I love him, you know, and he struggled with things. I mean, I don’t think that’s private. That’s, that’s in his book that’s in his interviews, that’s in a bunch of different accounts. And, and, and I don’t think, you know, give it a minute because, like, I don’t think he was as happy as a coach. I think he hated being a coach. And he says himself, I was a yeller and a screamer as a coach. So, um, I, you know, I just want people to know that it’s that it’s done with a lot of love and care and, and these are people that that that we we look up to, and, and our heroes for all of us, you know, growing up.

 

Warren Shaw  13:35

I don’t, I’m not one of those people who find it to be distasteful in any capacity, and maybe not even saying it’s disparaging. I just know, there’s some people, and he’s a logo, how are you going to portray the logo in that way? But to your point, you know, I think there’s there are plenty of stories about how he couldn’t even stomach to watch games, how he really low that it ate him up to lose, and if you if you watch the series, and I don’t know, by the time this airs, like, what episode will be in, but he Keemun levels off. I mean, he kind of he low, he comes in hot you and I mean, as a coach, and he kind of levels off.

 

Jim Hecht  14:09

I think he’s kind of settled in everything. I’ve just given the episodes that we’ve had out so far, you can see he’s already like, you know, and now he’s out of coaching. And, and he’s starting to be an executive and, you know, let’s see how that path affects him as a man. And, you know, these things are there’s arcs. You know, people start out in a certain place, and things happen, and they change and they either find what they’re looking for, or they don’t or, you know, so some of these things were like, starting points that are used to illustrate a person’s growth through a series that’s going to span a course of 12 years. You know, is it all 100% accurate about like, did we get every inflection of every sentence that was ever spoken? Right? I don’t know. But like, we try to always be right to the truth of the person and the truth of the story. They were telling and and there’s a point to it. So, I hope you know. I don’t know, is there a number for accuracy? It’s it’s based on actual events. And I think we’ve done a pretty good job. I think when people factcheck I read I like sometimes I read the FBI like the things that people think are the most sure you can they fact check out to be true, you know, Vic Weiss really did end up where he ended up like Jack McKenney really did have that happen. And like, you know, the most shock to me the most shocking events, or the true ones?

 

Warren Shaw  15:32

Yeah, I think those those are actually really, really good points, too. You know, and I was gonna even ask that, because in terms of, can you even gauge what the level of accuracy is, you know, I mean, you’re just out here doing, you know, trying to tell the truth, if you will, to the best of your ability, but still making something in essence for for TV. So the final question, I went up to find a question. But final question, before we go to break here, I wanted to ask you is, did your you and your team did you actually pause in any capacity? And say, like, Man, I don’t want maybe we shouldn’t put this in there or is like, Hey, here’s what we heard. Here’s what we read. We’re putting it out here for us, or was there any type of censoring to some degree?

 

Jim Hecht  16:10

Yeah, I think anytime there’s a story with how many people are involved, there’s 50 different versions of what happened especially at Bing 40 years ago. And so you know, you watch last dance I love last dance. Like I really enjoyed that. But that’s Michael’s story. And like everybody else in the on the team and in the organization seems to have a different version of it. And they all different from each other. So like, you gotta go through and to determine like, what is your best version of the events and also, which version? Sure this is a still a TV show. It is a drama, and like which one best serves to make the point about the characters and the people in the story that we’re trying to tell. And you know, what happens on what ends up on the screen for the most part is, however heavily labored over and held up to the light and considered before it ends up making it onto your TV.

 

Warren Shaw  17:02

We’re talking with Jim heck here from HBO winning time, let’s take a quick break and we’ll be right that

 

17:07

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Warren Shaw  17:37

And we’re back with my guy Jim Hecht here from HBO winning time He is the executive producer and CO writer just doing everything for the for the show, along with a great, great team and an amazing cast of actors. Some people you know some people are busting out on scene and now you know them for real. Let’s jump back right in here. My guy Jim. So what did you learn about this project? I know it’s been based off a book and there’s a lot of things you’re reading and you story about what would you think is the most interesting tidbit of information that you didn’t know even as a fan of the Lakers growing up?

 

Jim Hecht  18:09

I mean, when I read Jeff’s book, that’s what got me right away like I you know, I had that sort of thought that I told you about liking stuff versus LeBron Steph analysis. I you know, I gotta stop doing the show that I want other people to see and do the show I want to see and it was like that day. I was listening to Maxim Marcellus on ESPN Radio. And I heard about Jeff’s book. I got it the next day. I was online. I was at book soup, like the moment the bookstore opened, and then I read it by 11. And I was just like, Oh my God, I didn’t know any of this. And I was like, the biggest Laker fan as a kid. Like I thought I knew everything. In my mind. It was Jack Ramsay and Jack McKenna. You know, I was young. Like, in my mind, I didn’t know about the Jerry Tarkanian stuff that I had never heard of. You know, I didn’t know. Yeah, I didn’t know about a lot of it. And some of the things I didn’t know didn’t totally remember didn’t register until I read them the way that Jeff put them. Because like, I’ve forgotten that when I was a kid. That first championship. The NBA Finals weren’t on live on TV. Like yeah, tape today, it was showed after the game was over at 11pm because they didn’t want to interrupt the network news. So I just repeat that like the NBA Finals were not popular enough to you know, beyond at the time that the news was on CBS. Like that’s that’s the league has come a long way. I mean, and stuff like that there was you know, the Nike thing that we had last week I was like that way that magic you know, I might have made the same decision at that time and I get it but I didn’t know about the whole Phil Knight of it all and and and, you know, stuff like that. Like I know, we read that. Someone taped the First Boston la game like filmed it on like a camera or whatever, and then took it over to back to Rome. They were from Italy and showed it In theaters in Rome, and that sort of like started to introduce the NBA to, you know, audiences around their European audiences. And so the book and the series are just chock full of things that I that I didn’t know, even as the most rabid you know, even as the guy who went to, you know, half the like all the home games when they won 17 games, like I didn’t know some of that stuff.

 

Warren Shaw  20:23

Man. That sounds again, extremely, extremely, you know, illuminating, if you will, and yeah, I cringe watching that for earning. I was like, Oh, those shares, you could have had the magic wand. It could have been you.

 

Jim Hecht  20:38

But he was united with it. What’s that, like? Never heard of you like Congress is where it’s at. And, but I can picture most, can’t you? I mean, I can picture myself doing the same thing. And someone came up with like, Hey, do you want to do this on so and so network? And I’m like, I’ve never heard of that network. Like, right. And you’re after the pain? Forget it. You’re like, we’re there also, yeah, like, you know, yeah, same thing he did. I came up about that commerce thing and, you know, magic and Larry and doing the commercials and like, how that affected their, their relationship. And it’s pretty crazy.

 

Warren Shaw  21:13

No, it really is. It really really is, man. It makes me laugh. And again, one of the things I loved about this series, and I always get the terminology wrong, but is it what is it like the fourth wall? You know, we’re actors. Sometimes. I talk back to the audience, if you will. So even in that specific, yeah, I mean, Phil Knight, he regrets it. Me Like, I think that’s on point, man. And he steps in there and does something gives it another another element for the show.

 

Jim Hecht  21:41

to part two of my favorite actors are that guy and the guy that plays Phil Knight, I thought did a great job. And the guy that plays Don Sterling like, just killed it, like they captured that sleazy, like, just weirdness.

 

Warren Shaw  21:55

Because I legit cringe when I’m like, Oh, this guy. You mean like you? Yeah, you do feel the air of just kind of just, yeah, it’s not a good dude, right there. Two part question for you. So I want you to tell me your most memorable moment on sets, and your favorite episode of the first season.

 

Jim Hecht  22:15

The sad thing is kind of well, now see, I was gonna say it’s easy, but it’s not. There was a really personal moment, Sue, my now wife came to set the first day that we shot, which was the golf course scene where Jerry West kind of loses it. And she picked me up at work. And we went to Ross Dress For Less Than I proposed to her in Eros, the first day of shooting, but she came to set and nobody would talk to her because they all knew what was going to happen. And they didn’t want to be the one to spoil, you know, the surprise of it. They’re, they’re like, I can’t be I can’t speak to her. I’ll blow it. And then the other one was when the first day that Jeff Perlman and the book author came to set was also like, I think the first or at least one of the first days that we shot in the form with full basketball and the form and then the Laker girls were there and it was just like, you know, when I was a kid, my dad was the guy that bought us seats, like second row from the ceiling. You know, where the players were like ants basically scurrying around down there. Like, that was my experience of games when I was a kid. And so to be able to, like, walk out on the forum floor with, you know, there’s magic. There’s Korean, there’s Dr. Buss, there’s the Laker girls, there’s chick, you know. And just Walker. It wasn’t like just walking into like, my childhood, but it was like walking into my childhood fantasies version of what, you know how great that could be. It was really weird and special. And also great to get to do that with Jeff, you know, because we had been working on this thing for eight years. And he said, like, the first time I came into his house, and in New York, upstate in New Rochelle, upstate, I guess it’s like right next door, but like I showed up with a tomato, a block of chocolate, and a bottle of non alcoholic wine and tried to talk him into giving me the rights to his book, and he had been burned so many times, and had things option that went nowhere. He was just like, Yeah, fine. Take a flyer, go for it. You know, my biggest writing credit at that time was was Ice Age, the meltdown. I had never written for human beings. You know, I had never even written for animals that were extinct yet. And he was like, you know, so like nothing. And he could he said, he closed the door when I left and his wife and him turned to each other. And they’re like, nothing’s ever gonna happen with that. Man, he did not believe until cameras are rolling. He just did not. You know, you didn’t see it.

 

Warren Shaw  24:37

You’ve done done an amazing job with it. So second part of that question is your favorite episode of the series right now?

 

Jim Hecht  24:46

That’s really hard. I mean, in some ways, I just feel like they get better and better and better one through 10 and there’s almost like a ramp to it. I mean, five is really special to me, even though it’s not one of the ones that I’m credited as writing on. I thought The thing that happened there with Korean was was a special, you know, storyline that I’m really proud of working on that episode like being around it and, and Ronnie Barnes who did most of that Korean material, a he, you know, had the whole idea of working out a crisis of faith alongside a crisis of basketball, you know, what am I doing with my life and and I just thought the end result between the directors and Max, the showrunner and everybody else, I thought they just knocked it out of the park. And then it also coincides with kind of a surprise ending to the episode. I will say that the beach boy sound cue was mine from the beginning, I always saw that scene playing out with good vibrations, I think because I was watching Love and Mercy at the time. And I just saw good vibrations, and he’s riding the bike and the wind is in his hair. And, you know, I just don’t know and the whole episodes so far, but that’s the last one. Basically, there’s been one more after that, which also, so it’s hard for me. The next one, you know, coming up in the next couple of episodes. I don’t want to say too much but like, you might see magic versus Larry. You know, you asked one of my favorite moments was I have a picture of me in the Celtics. I can’t believe this ever happened. The Celtics warmups, play and play in one on one with the guy that played Larry Bird on the parquet floor, you know, in our Boston Garden. It’s probably my favorite picture of myself that I have. I’m trying to guard him and he’s beating me in flip flops. But you know, I did my best. I’m almost 50 Or like I do I play the best t I can. I play I played one on one with Quincy the last time. I got to point number three. It was to one I was holding my own till about then. And then all of a sudden I could not breathe anymore. I couldn’t breathe. I couldn’t guard him. I was like, just shoot.

 

26:49

It happens. Yeah.

 

Jim Hecht  26:51

It’s weird. It’s been all of a sudden. Or maybe they just got young. I don’t know what happened. I can still shoot. I just can’t run anymore.

 

Warren Shaw  27:00

Yeah, man, I might get one day walking up the stairs, bro. So don’t even I’m not even mad at you with it. Last couple of

 

Jim Hecht  27:07

literally trying to keep up with crunchy I thought there was one that was like, I’m gonna come back to that. I’m gonna die. I’m gonna I’m gonna fall down. I’m gonna die.

 

Warren Shaw  27:15

Get the medic row get the medic. So I read and I you can correct me if I’m wrong here as well to you. But I guess season two, is it confirmed as of yet? Yes.

 

Jim Hecht  27:27

Yeah. Yeah, that’s announced. Yeah, you probably wouldn’t got it out of me anyway, because I don’t know how to shut up. But I guess he was announced that season two is full force going ahead. And we’re writing that right now. And, you know, have not gotten a day off for four years on that thing. But because we were in the writers room, and we shot the pilot in 2019. And then we went into pandemic for two years. So we were in the writers room for season one for three years. And now we’ve been back for you know, another nine months or so. So no rest for the weary and that’s what I mean about if you don’t love it, like you walk away at some point.

 

Warren Shaw  28:02

So with that, I gotta ask anybody who’s like kind of in the weeds in it like like you are? There’s there’s an end, there’s the beginning and there has to be an end. Do you Do you know, kind of like what that is already in terms of like, hey, how many seasons you want this thing to go to really be able to tell the story had the arc of the players any any supplemental roles, you know, is there something that you kind of have in mind four seasons, five seasons? Or hey, man, until they start writing these checks? Like which way does it go?

 

Jim Hecht  28:31

Be? Yeah, I think you could do it forever. And and my you don’t, when we first start out there like you can do one season and it’s got to go from 1979 to 1991. I was pitching Friday nights, which is every season is a season, like you know we did with season one here in the end. And because I think when you get in there and you start spending time with the characters, you really want to spend more time with the characters and get to know them and their stories, which doesn’t have that much to do necessarily with basketball. Then fortunately, HBO kept dividing it from one season to two seasons to you know, and now we’re sort of more like a figuring it out, like how many seasons do you take to get from 79 to 91? I would advocate more. You know, I think like I think it could support at least six to eight seasons, you know, but that hasn’t been decided yet. I think you could go on and you know, at least go on and do Shaq and Kobe HBO is off options. Jeff’s next book three ring circus, which is the story of the Shaq and Kobe or Lakers. I don’t see any reason why it couldn’t end with brawn and brawny side by side, hoisting the Larry O’Brien trophy when the Celtics go into second place, and the Lakers become the all time you know, most franchise championship when he won not I mean, his story could still be getting written and by then, I have stepkids and they’re gonna have to go to college and so I need to you know, we need more season.

 

Warren Shaw  29:59

Well, I can repeat Ah honesty I will not appreciate the Celtic slander, but it is what it is. We we can still be friends

 

Jim Hecht  30:08

I hope even not experience love our treatment of the Celtics and Larry and red. Red is red, you know, like he’s, he’s rough like, Yeah, but I love him like I’ve read everything now and like he might. He’s one of my favorite characters like red is just such a fun dude and such a genius and someone who gave me shivers through my spine as a child. As you know, up until recently, now I go, Oh, I like that guy. He’s cool.

 

Warren Shaw  30:34

Yeah, man, he’s extremely like the actor plays into like, extremely, again, just confident, even regal in some ways, like not not a care in the world like not concern. No, not at all. It’s really, I almost dismissive in a lot of ways too. So it is. portray on screen. So listen, I gotta let you go. Because I know you have a lot of things going on. I do want to ask, you know, is this like this? Is it like you just kind of even said, Can you even do anything else? Me? Do you have any other projects? And as always, when I talk to people in your space, I gotta say, Hey, man, if you’re gonna put this thing out here for four or five season, I’ll be an extra. Let me just, you know, let me just walk by the audience or something like that roll down the hall. And

 

Jim Hecht  31:16

how tall are you? You can Yeah, we got stuff. Come on by. We extend we are now i will talk off screen. That’s fine. That works. You know, Norm Nixon says he sticks to but no, there’s we got six foot actors. I have another show that I’m working on right now. It was actually I’ve been working on this for over 20 years. It was my thesis project. In college. It’s a story about Huey P. Newton, who was the founding leader of the Black Panther Party. He also had a lot of Hollywood friends. And when the FBI came after him with COINTELPRO and tried to pin some stuff on him. He used those Hollywood connections to get out of the country to Cuba by pretending that they were making a movie. And so it’s a six-episode limited series that Apple was shooting next month. Don Cheadle is directing Andre Holland plays Huey Newton, and we just had a stellar cast and I’m super excited about that one. But, you know, it’s another 125 years, maybe 2325 years and it’s taken to get it to where we’re finally rolling cameras. Next, you know, month and I don’t know if that’s a testament to it takes me 25 years to write something decent. Or it’s just a testament to faith and perseverance and hard work it’s probably somewhere in the middle because I know there’s some dudes that can just snap their fingers and write you know, Oscar winning stuff. I don’t happen to be one of those people. It’s gotta be a labor of love for me and it takes a long time.

 

Warren Shaw  32:45

Like you said earlier be man you know give yourself all the props, bro.

 

Jim Hecht  32:50

Thank you. I appreciate that.

 

Warren Shaw  32:51

Anytime, any time that has all the time we have for today. I want to thank the amazing and talented Jim hack for joining us here with an amazing conversation discussing again one of the best shows of 2022 winning time on HBO if you haven’t watched it please please go out there cop that you know even cuddle up to a friend who has HBO Max do something make sure you get this in your life it is an amazing show done by an amazing talent. Again I’m your host Warren Shaw follow me on Twitter at dope underscore interviews or at Shaw sports MBA from our regular basketball and NBA content you know what it is man it’s been another dope interview and we’re out

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